DIVA is celebrating the International Day For The Elimination Of Racial Discrimination with this exclusive interview with Laila El-Metoui and Sally Carr MBE
BY LAILA EL-METOUI
As the world commemorates the International Day For The Elimination Of Racial Discrimination on 21 March, DIVA magazine is proud to present an exclusive interview shedding light on the importance of intersectionality in the fight against discrimination. Join us as we sit down with Laila El-Metoui (she/her) Global Equity Educator, Founder of Pride in Education, and Stonewall Lesbian Role Model and Sally Carr MBE (she/they), Director at Pride Sports, Founder of Pride Road Collective and The Proud Trust, for an insightful discussion on navigating the complexities of identity and activism within LGBTQIA communities.
How do you navigate the intersectionality of your identities within your activism?
Laila: As someone who belongs to multiple marginalised and racialised communities and is actively involved in advocacy work, I often find myself grappling with the complexity of my intersecting identities. It can feel like a significant challenge to advocate for these identities and address systemic injustices, akin to a canary attempting to extinguish a raging forest fire, by carrying water in its beak. Additionally, there is a concept known as cultural taxation, where individuals from marginalised backgrounds are disproportionately tasked with educating others and promoting social change.
Within our community, there is a shortage of representation for individuals like myself, Arab and cisgender lesbians, making it easier for our voices to be overlooked in favour of those with more privilege. This can create a sense of isolation and make it difficult to have our perspectives included in broader advocacy efforts. Overall, the magnitude of this work can sometimes feel daunting, reminiscent of the aforementioned canary
Sally: As a proud Queer Romany Gypsy, (Qypsy, a term I created for myself), the impact of daily marginalisation is traumatising. Anti-gypsyism is alive within our own LGBTQIA communities and in wider society. I have had to learn to protect myself, and this means heightened levels of vigilance in scanning for possible threats, and deciding when to act, and when to delay action.
Compared to my birth family, my skin colour is light, and I can at times benefit from white-passing, which I have used wisely to advantage other racially marginalised identities. However, any privilege that is afforded is often soon swept away when people realise, I am Romany Gypsy.
A positive outcome of this is a deeper understanding of how I can utilise the power and privilege of others, to make a positive difference. By developing the mutual support of champions and allies that amplify my voice and support the changes that are needed. An example of this is the Pride Road Collective, a network I founded of Gypsy, Romany and Traveller (GRT) LGBTQIA people working alongside GRT organisations to support inclusive practices.
What’s the impact on your emotional and mental well-being?
Sally: To name a few, I would say the way some people look me up and down when they find out I’m a Gypsy, and then clutch their bag for dear life. Sometimes followed by intrusive questions about how you can be both Queer and Gypsy. The invalidation and minimisation by others, (i.e. Gorgers, non-gypsies), of the racism I experience, is undermining, degrading and humiliating, and is in and of itself racist.
It is rare that I can be all aspects of my intersectional identity in many situations and having to continually code switch in order to keep safe, whereby I have to adapt by conversation and ways of being to fit different social and cultural contexts is emotionally weathering.
Laila: Interesting that you mention code-switching Sally, as someone who speaks multiple languages, it’s something that I am very familiar with in the linguistic sense of the term.
Similarly, because of the lack of positive role models and visibility for our respective communities, I experience similar levels of ignorance with people making the assumption that I must be rejected by my family because I am of Arabic heritage, when in fact my family has always been extremely welcoming of my sexual orientation and activism (on my mum side of the family especially) but that’s for another story. I would say that the impact on my emotional and mental well-being has been quite substantive and very much impacted by global events such as the genocide in Palestine for example. The injustice makes me feel ‘sangry’ a term I coined to describe how I switch between sadness and anger when faced with hardship, which then fuels my activism. There also seems to be a dissonance when it comes to advocating for black and brown people. The darker the skin the less one seems to matter.
What measures do you take to address and mitigate any negative effects on your personal resilience and self-care?
Sally: I am really fortunate; I have a great partner and brilliant friends, and this has been the best therapy for me.
I really believe you can’t do this on your own, and knowing that people have your back, in the most difficult of times, can’t be underestimated. I strongly believe that people need people, and having good solid trusted people is the medicine that gets me through. Making space to breathe, cry, rant and re-group knowing I have a support network is powerful.
Laila: Good to hear that you have a supportive network, Sally. One thing we all have in common, I feel is our ‘chosen family’. For us LGBTIQA people we choose represent a support network of individuals who provide acceptance, love, and affirmation, forming deep
connections and a sense of belonging beyond biological or legal ties. I have and still use a range of resources to build my own resilience as featured in the DIVA article for International Women’s Day how I overcame obstacles to embrace my authentic self.
Can you share examples of performative allyship you have encountered within LGBTIQA spaces or broader activist circles, and how do you address or challenge such behaviour to amplify the voices of marginalised LGBTQIA individuals?
Sally: It’s sad to have to comment on this, however, it is a reality. Some forms of racism are given attention to address them, whilst other forms of racism are upheld and marginalised. I have experienced this across LGBTQIA spaces and activists. Anti-gypsyism is still seen as the last respectable form of racism, and I hear openly expressed slurs, opinions and hate every week of my life, with very little challenge. The performative allyship comes in the form of LGBTQIA and other people and organisations who say they are anti-racist and then openly oppress my Romany Gypsy community.
To challenge this, I have had to choose when to raise my voice, when to ask others to step in, and when to suffer in silence, as the lack of GRT allies in LGBTQIA communities is very painfully clear.
Laila: I have to say that I have had very limited exposure to the GRT community and even less to the Queer GRT Community and it’s really important to raise awareness of these issues and educate people. Performative allyship refers to superficial or insincere actions
taken to appear supportive of marginalised groups without genuine commitment to addressing systemic issues or advocating for meaningful change can sometimes be well-intentioned in the sense that individuals may genuinely believe they are supporting a cause of a marginalised group. However, it often lacks meaningful action or understanding of the underlying issues and may prioritise appearances or personal comfort over genuine advocacy or systemic change. I think it’s a societal issue rather than an LGBTIQA issue.
As I feel performative allyship stems from ignorance or ego, the best way to mitigate it is through education, which I am sure you would agree with.
21 March is International Day For The Elimination Of Racial Discrimination what needs to be done within the LGBTIQA community to support the racialised members of their community? And how can individuals outside of these communities effectively support and advocate for systemic change to combat oppression and discrimination?
Sally: Positive stories about our lives and achievements need to be forefronted, and this needs a determined effort, so we are not tokenised.
An understanding that all racism is interlinked, so if you are upholding anti-gypsy views whilst championing other forms of anti-racism, then nothing will change. You can’t pit one racialised group against another and hope to eliminate racial discrimination it just doesn’t work. Seeing racism as a whole and the people impacted by it is crucial. Our voices in this are essential, nothing about us without us. However, often our voices are marginalised, so as an ally sometimes we need you to champion us, alongside us, to amplify us.
Laila: I couldn’t have said it better myself, it’s important to increase positive representation of marginalised groups, hear their struggles, ask how they would like to be supported and involve them in decision-making.
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